On today’s episode, the kind and knowledgeable Dave Hunt, CEO of Crossrope, joins us to talk about how jumping rope may actually be one of the most versatile and beneficial workouts of them all, advice for those looking to finally get double under’s, and we round it out by picking his brain for some sage business advice.
We’re back with our 68th episode of the Fed+Fit Podcast! Remember to check back every Monday for a new episode and be sure to subscribe on iTunes!
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Episode 68 Transcription
On today’s episode, the kind and knowledgeable Dave Hunt, CEO of Crossrope, joins us to talk about how jumping rope may actually be one of the most versatile and beneficial workouts of them all; advice for those looking to finally get double unders, and then we round out the conversation by picking his brain for some sage business advice.
Cassy Joy: Welcome back to another episode of the Fed and Fit podcast. I’m really excited about today’s episode. We’re really going to start to speak to some of that “Fit” side of the Fed and Fit. I’m really thrilled and honored to have Dave Hunt, president and CEO of Crossrope on the call today.
So just to give you guys a little bit of background information on Dave; he invented the Crossrope system, which we’ll talk more about in a little bit, when he was sidelined with an injury back in 2011. From his high school days in upstate New York, to the Naval Academy, and then on to a career as a navy pilot, he’s always had a passion for jumping. When he’s not at Crossrope headquarters working on innovative new ways to bring an enjoyable jump rope experience to the masses, which is probably no easy task, you’ll find him at the gym spending time with his wife and two kids. He’s an awesome guy; I’m excited to talk to him today and introduce you guys. Welcome to the show, Dave!
Dave Hunt: Thanks so much for having me, I appreciate it.
Cassy Joy: Oh my goodness, absolutely. Tell us a little bit about your background; maybe tell us about your personal fitness journey, I’m really fascinated by that. And what interested you in a career dedicated to optimizing the jump rope experience?
Dave Hunt: Sure, absolutely. First of all, thanks for the kind intro. I’ve always loved to jump. I think sometimes there are just innate characteristics and passions that people have, and I don’t know where it came from, but ever since I was a little kid, I just remember trying to jump as high as I can. I always gravitated towards jumping sports; I think there’s just some sort of; I don’t know, even if it’s only for a second, some sort of freedom about leaving gravity and trying to jump up in the air. Even though we’re not really made to fly, it’s fun to pretend like we can.
So I’ve just always had a passion for jumping, and I pursued that through the sports that I did all the way up through being a high jumper, and a long jumper in college, and I was kind of one of those guys that after I graduated, I couldn’t hand up the spikes. I still had to pretend like I was an athlete and like I was competing, and I found that the jump rope was just a really challenging and engaging way to continue to push my limits. I kind of found it to be that limitless challenge where I could find new skills and tricks and tempos that would really push and challenge me.
Along the way, when I was trying new jump ropes and trying new workouts, I discovered heavy ropes, but I kept on breaking them. So it kind of put me in a scenario where I thought the classic, “There’s got to be a better way.” So I think that planted a seed for me. And then you mentioned that I got an injury back in 2011, so that was my opportunity to kind of seize the day, and give it a shot and see what I could create.
Cassy Joy: That’s awesome. Did you happen to watch the Crossfit games this year?
Dave Hunt: I did, and I saw the final.
Cassy Joy: Yeah, the heavy ropes, they were.
Dave Hunt: Yep.
Cassy Joy: It made these amazing Crossfit games athletes look like maybe I do at the gym. {laughs}
Dave Hunt: {laughs} Well, it’s funny. It’s difficult to describe to people that haven’t used heavy ropes before how challenging it is, because the amount of weight in the ropes sounds insignificant compared to the amount of weight that some people will throw around when they’re lifting barbells or dumbbells. But when you’re rotating that rope around you, you don’t need to be a physics major to kind of understand that that centrifugal force is really going to start adding up and it becomes a significant challenge. So I’m glad {laughs} I’m glad that you noticed that. Those guys, top 10 athletes in the world, and they were struggling.
Cassy Joy: They were; they were. It looked very relatable, their experience. {laughs}
Dave Hunt: {laughs} Yeah.
Cassy Joy: That’s great. Man, that’s wonderful. And there is something to your point; just, I don’t know. It taps into; I don’t know if it’s just a childhood sort of desire to fly, like you said, but there is something really fun about jumping. I’ve always loved; I liked to say that I’m the Benny Goodman of athletes; I don’t really have a whole lot of natural ability.
Dave Hunt: {laughs}
Cassy Joy: But I have been working at it for a long time. {laughs}
Dave Hunt: There you go! I mean, that’s what counts, right?
Cassy Joy: It is. It is. I don’t know if you’re familiar, but Benny Goodman; or for listeners, he’s a clarinet player, and he’s one of the best in the world and probably will ever have, and he’s always said that he actually wasn’t a natural musician, he just worked at it every day. So anyways, I think that’s fun. High jump is one of my favorites; just leaving the ground, and seeing how high I could go. But that’s wonderful.
So I would love to pick your brain then; kind of the physiology side of it. What are some of the unsung benefits of a jump rope exercise?
Dave Hunt: It’s a great question. You know, I think people tend to think of jump rope just as cardio. You know; they put it into the same categorization as running, or the bike, or the elliptical. But really, there’s a lot more benefits that aren’t as popularized. So let’s start on the cardio front.
There was actually a Harvard study done back in 1975, and they took men and women of similar age groups and weights and stuff like that, and they ran them through 30-minute exercise tests, and jump rope actually came out on top for the highest calorie burn. And the reason why is because it engages so many major muscle groups in a dynamic fashion, that when you’re engaging more groups, your body is going to burn calories faster.
I’m not sure how many people realize that it’s really one of the most efficient kinds of best bang for your buck type exercises that you can do if you have to just get a quick workout in. Just something that is proven to be effective.
Beyond that, there’s also a kind of strength and conditioning component. So as people are more and more interested in kind of this idea of high intensity training, and I had mentioned weighted ropes, you can generate a lot of force, so there’s kind of some strength benefits that can come from jumping that people wouldn’t normally think about.
Beyond that, there are some other little cool ones too. You may or may not have heard this before, but jump rope can actually help to prevent osteoporosis. Another proven fact where just having a little bit of that impact from jumping helps to strengthen the bones. Especially for women as they start to age a little bit, osteoporosis can be a big concern. So it’s a real good exercise for helping to prevent that.
Beyond that, there are even claims about improved mental acuity because it just takes, in order to kind of be successful at jumping rope, there’s this added element of coordination. You kind of need to be thinking on your feet as you’re jumping. I know there’s a lot of talk about super foods, and all different benefits. I kind of consider jump rope to be a super exercise. Just so many more benefits than what people would think.
Cassy Joy: Wow, that is really cool. That’s really fascinating. And it makes a lot of sense that it would help with mental acuity, because it’s not just like jumping on an elliptical and zoning out to the news. {laughs}
Dave Hunt: Right. You’re right; it’s very mentally engaging when you’re jumping; you have to pay attention!
Cassy Joy: You do.
Dave Hunt: That rope isn’t going to jump itself.
Cassy Joy: That’s fascinating. You know what, Dave, you’ve just convinced me of? I’m about to hit the road for a book tour to celebrate and go and sign books across the country. And I was trying to figure out what my on the road fitness game plan would be, and aside from dropping into gyms and yoga studios, because that’s just a fun way to meet people.
Dave Hunt: Oh yeah.
Cassy Joy: I’m going to bring a jump rope. I’m going to bring a jump rope, and maybe I’ll b ring a Crossrope {laughs} and I’ll jump in my hotel room. That sounds great.
Dave Hunt: Yeah, I’ll make sure to get you one. I mean, like you mentioned, it’s a great portable tool. I’m remiss for not mentioning that, but it’s something that you can bring on the road and you can train anywhere. We’re really very much about the “train anywhere” mentality. So yeah, I’ll send you a set.
Cassy Joy: OH, that’s so nice of you. I mean that really is it; I’m visualizing. I can just toss that in my suitcase, and it won’t take up too much room with my blow dryer and all of the shoes I’m planning on bringing. {laughs}
Dave Hunt: {laughs} Yep, there you go. Convenience factor.
Cassy Joy: Yeah, that’s it. That’s wonderful. Ok, I have another question for you. I have been in the gym working around double unders and those types of workouts for the last almost 8 years, sort of in a Crossfit style workout, of course. I’ve seen; I’ve been to a lot of jump rope clinics. And I personally started to get double unders; I felt like I just woke up one morning and something clicked in my brain. But it took me a couple of years to get there. I would love to hear it from you; what are maybe some of the; because I’ve heard a lot about the mistakes people make when they’re trying to jump rope, whether it’s double under or just have good form for single unders. So what would you say are some of the biggest mistakes you see people make when it comes to technique? And maybe equipment if equipment has something to do with that.
Dave Hunt: Sure. Well I think the first thing on the technique front, the best place to start is the idea that less is more. I think when a lot of people are in, and that’s with regard to body movements. So I think when a lot of people start, they’re very, very aggressive in terms of their arm movement; they’re very, very aggressive in terms of their lower body movement and their jumps. They kind of just look like, I don’t know, like a kangaroo trying to jump super high, flailing their arms all around. When really the proper technique for singles and doubles in the upper body is exactly the same; it’s just small circles with the rotation of the rope generated by the wrists; small bounds with your feet, and it does take a little bit to build confidence with that, but that’s where the equipment piece comes into it.
So the biggest mistake that I see people make with regard to equipment is that they start out with a rope that’s too light or too fast for their ability level. Jumping rope is kind of unique in that when you’re a beginning, starting as light as possible is not the best option. Normally we’re always taught; hey, if you want to learn a new exercise, or start with a new piece of equipment, start as light as you can until you learn the proper technique and then go up in weight. Don’t try to prove how tough you are by going too heavy.
But jump rope is opposite of that because learning the proper technique and learning where the main coordination is actually easier with a heavier rope. And it’s counter intuitive, and most people don’t realize that, but often times when I’ve gone around and I’ve done double under seminars and clinics, and people have their very first experience with a heavier rope, something clicks kind of like you mentioned. Something clicks, sooner rather than later, and they’re able to get a real sense of the proper technique that they need to use when they’re jumping.
Cassy Joy: Wow, that’s fascinating. That’s; I mean, that’s a really good I think sound bite, just to reiterate; opposed to other workouts, you’re doing yourself a disservice if you don’t start with a heavier rope at the beginning stage.
Dave Hunt: Absolutely.
Cassy Joy: That’s great. So what advice would you have for somebody who does want to get better or simple start consistently getting double unders if that’s a part of their regular workout? Just to have a heavier rope?
Dave Hunt: Well, I’m a firm believer in this idea of a multirope system.
Cassy Joy: Ok.
Dave Hunt: I mean, quite frankly, even before Crossrope, my gym bag had tons of ropes of different weights in there. And the interesting thing about it is people usually don’t think twice about using different weights or resistances for most exercises. I mean, can you imagine going into a gym where all they had was one weight of dumbbell for everybody to use? All they have is 5 pound dumbbells for everybody to use. Or they have a barbell but there are no weights to go on it, you just use the barbell.
So I think when it comes to something like double unders, simply using different weights of ropes inherently helps you learn to control the rope better, it helps you to learn more with body awareness and coordination, and just the challenge that’s given by switching between lighter and heavier ropes kind of does this sort of magical thing where your body really learns and becomes more proficient at jumping.
Of course, there’s a technique element to it, but if you watch some; we’ve got a bunch of tutorial videos on our YouTube channel and on our website. If you want some videos and the basics of good technique, and then you’re using a couple of different weights of ropes, things just start to click a lot quickly. So for somebody that wants to learn double unders, definitely start learning good technique with single unders first, don’t try to make that big jump straight to doubles. I’ve just found with so many jumpers, whether it’s our customers or whether it’s people that have tried different weights of ropes, it greatly accelerates their ability to kind of get the right technique down.
Cassy Joy: Wow, that makes so much sense! {laughs} It feels like a duh moment!
Dave Hunt: {laughs} I always hold my breath.
Cassy Joy: No, that makes so much sense. It makes me want to go and tell my favorite gym owner about it. {laughs}
Dave Hunt: {laughs} Yeah, please do.
Cassy Joy: “You have a bunch of plates here, but you don’t have a bunch of weighted ropes here.” {laughs}
Dave Hunt: Yeah. You know, it’s, to me it seems like common sense where varying resistance is just the standard within fitness now, and you know, there were different weights of ropes prior to Crossrope, it’s just that my idea, simply because there wasn’t a product out there that did it was to have a good quality handle that rotates well that you can change different weights of ropes. And that was kind of the game changer for me. And my kind of joke when I created the product was; well, if nobody else wants it, I’ll certainly have the best jump rope that I want for my own needs. So that was kind of my attitude going into it. But it’s really been quite a journey.
Cassy Joy: You know, that’s really where some of the best products and services come from is I think someone is answering a question or a need that they personally have, and it’s the attitude of; I’m going to make this great because I want it. I want this thing.
Dave Hunt: Yeah! {laughs}
Cassy Joy: It’s not that you’re trying to make it to sell it, necessarily. And if it sells, oh cool! So that’s what this; that’s how businesses start! {laughs}
Dave Hunt: Yeah!
Cassy Joy: I mean, it’s the same for, I’m kind of in the professional services side of things. Not dissimilar to you being a coach, but being a nutritionist and a nutrition consultant, but I wanted to learn about food and nutrition and how it impacted the body for myself.
Dave Hunt: Yeah.
Cassy Joy: And then, I wanted to learn how to cook awesome recipes for myself. {laughing} So, I didn’t start to learn all of that stuff necessarily because I wanted to, from the beginning, share it with the world and then people started organically asking questions, and that’s where a blog was born, and the rest is history! But I just think that’s interesting. It’s a common thread among, I think, I want to say really honest businesses. So I admire that approach.
And I kind of skipped over this question a little bit, but you’ve touched on it. But if you could tell us how the Crossrope differs from what we’re used to, equipment wise.
Dave Hunt: Yeah, sure. Well it’s an interchangeable jump rope system. So, it’s really, really high quality smooth spinning handles with clips on the end, and then there’s a range of rope weights from a quarter pound all the way up to 2 pounds that basically interchange. So that it’s very easy to quick change within your workout, to train with multiple different weights of ropes, and really to get a lot more benefits than just a single rope.
And then we also, we somewhat recently launched a speed rope. It’s got real thin, fast, smooth spinning aluminum handles that change out with two different weights of speed ropes, so that it’s really basically as fast as anybody wants it to go. So we kind of have the speed rope system and this weighted rope system as part of our entire infinity rope system, and it really is just the most versatile jump rope training tool out there. Anybody that likes to jump rope or is considering getting into jump rope, it’s got training options for them to really achieve a wide range of fitness goals; from weight loss to improved conditioning to learning double unders.
Cassy Joy: That’s awesome. And you know something; Dave, I’m not sure how familiar you are with, well, the book’s not out so it would be impossible for you to be familiar {laughing} with the content I’ve got.
Dave Hunt: {laughs} But I saw, it’s 175 squeaky clean paleo recipes, right?
Cassy Joy: Yeah it’s got; man, it’s got a lot of recipes. We ate like kings. But I included; so I have a food and fitness program, and working with clients over the years, I got to the point where I couldn’t take on anymore clients, you know I was at maximum capacity and I needed to figure out a way to scale, so I boiled away some of the biggest hitting, most benign key education pieces that worked with most folks, and I transcribed that into what I called the Fed and Fit Project. And there’s a copy of the project in the book, and I also of course have an online program, which is not release yet. People keep asking me when; it’s coming soon! {laughing}
Dave Hunt: {laughs}
Cassy Joy: Because I might get a question from this podcast. But I say all that, because a big piece of the Fed and Fit Project is of course designing your own ideal fitness program. And I am a huge advocate for mixed fitness programming. And what I mean by that, is if you are a; gosh, a swimmer, and that’s something that you really, really enjoy doing, a strength training program is going to benefit your primary sport tremendously. So mixing and matching and trying to find contrasting events. And I think; I mean, that’s one of the reasons I’m so jazzed about Crossrope, and I really do want to get my hands on some for travel workouts, but I really think that it’s a great way to add in another piece of the mix.
But Crossrope is awesome because it provides the strength, the conditioning, the mental acuity, and of course, I mean it really does sound ideal as far as travel, but for anybody who is looking for weight loss, it sounds like a really healthy way to do it. So that’s awesome. I just want to sing your praises! That’s so cool.
Dave Hunt: {laughing} I appreciate it.
Cassy Joy: Yeah, of course. Ok, so you know what something is funny, I interview and regular listeners know this. When I interview folks who have their own businesses we talk about their business, but there’s this accidental passion that entrepreneurs have for entrepreneurship, and it seems to be a common thread across the board, and there’s a lot of people who listen here, that whether they own their own businesses or they’re looking to start something. There are a lot of people who are on the edge of their seat. They’ve got an idea, and they just don’t know what to do next, whether there’s fear getting in the way, or who knows what. A multitude of circumstances.
So I would love to know; pick your brain. You’re a successful entrepreneur. You have an awesome product, you have a great head on your shoulders, you’re a family guy. I think you’re a great person to give some good advice here. What are your top 3 pieces of advice for anyone looking to start a business?
Dave Hunt: Sure. It’s a great question; it’s one that I enjoy answering. And I like to keep my responses fairly simple, but the first one is to just do it. There are so many talkers out there, and it’s a huge step to get from the talking part of it to the doing part of it. You don’t have to have your whole business plan and exit strategy and everything finalized. All you need to do is kind of have a general idea of what you want to pursue, and then just take one step at a time. And I think sometimes it’s daunting because people, they look and they say “there are so many things! I don’t know where to get started in this and that.”
That’s where my second piece of advice comes in, is to seek mentorship. Because you will make mistakes; you and I both know that. You’ll make mistakes. There’s kind of this idea of failing forward; it’s ok to fail, you learn from your mistakes and you move on. But some mistakes will put you out of business if you’re not careful, and that’s where the mentorship comes about. So if you seek people that have done it before; a lot of people are really eager to give advice and to give help and to pay it forward. They really do want to help new entrepreneurs out. So seek mentorship, do your research, network, make some friends, and try to find the people that are going to be able to help you to get started and along the various stages along the way.
I think the third one is, it definitely ties into what you mentioned about passion. There’s been a couple of different I guess influencers within the entrepreneurship space that talk about this idea that passion is really, really important, and it’s a prerequisite, but just to make sure that you’re also doing something that you’re good at. Because if you’re really passionate about something and you’re not good at it, it’s much more difficult to succeed; not that you can’t. it’s great to have that iron will to push and to move forward, but it’s just tough. It’s tough starting a business. It’s not easy. So I think if you can mix your passion with something that you have unique talents and abilities, then that will really give you a leg up on people that maybe just they enjoy; you know, you can have a passion for surfing, and if you’re terrible at surfing you’re probably going to have a hard time getting the credibility that you need to get clients and to build a business around it.
So I think those are kind of my three pieces of advice; do it, it’s the best decision I’ve ever made if I could go back and do it all over again, I would. Seek mentorship, and make sure that even if it’s something that you’re passionate about, that it’s also something that you have some unique talents for.
Cassy Joy: Man, that is awesome advice. And to touch on something you said about falling forward, or failing forward, I guess. If you’re listening to this, and you’re thinking; well, oh gosh. I think I’m good at this; maybe there is a level of self awareness that you don’t actually have until the rubber meets the road. Maybe you don’t realize that one of your natural abilities isn’t the direction you thought you were going. By going for it, you’re able to realize, you’re able to fail but then kind of upgrade that experience into something closer to what you are good at.
For example, it took me 5 years in business, blogging and creating recipes, thinking that I was just going to do pure science. I was just going to be an outlet for geeky nutrition science, and that’s why people might come to me. It was going to be very just an information exchange. And truth be told, that is not something I’m great at! It requires a lot of work. I don’t actually retain information that easily, I’m constantly having to look up my notes, it doesn’t just roll off the tongue. But you know what does, and I didn’t realize it until I went for it, is in talking with people, one of my natural abilities is to just; I guess I bring an air of optimism and positivity into situations, and that’s just something that’s very natural for me and why people, I think, have been drawn to me recently. At least that’s the feedback I’ve been getting.
So chasing the feedback, the positive feedback that I’ve gotten along the way has helped me hone what are the things that I’m good at, and then do more of that. And then all of a sudden, business becomes easier. Because you are doing the things that you’re good at, and it’s what people want and what people are drawn to you for. I think that’s awesome advice, Dave; thank you so much.
Dave Hunt: Yeah, yeah. With regards to your experience; boy. {laughs} if you’re listening, take that advice as well. Because you’re right; getting that feedback and really providing kind of that value that people want, and injecting something that’s very unique and special about who you are is what’s going to take you to that next level. So congrats on your success and kind of going through and trying different things until you found what really clicked.
Cassy Joy: Yeah.
Dave Hunt: It’s exciting.
Cassy Joy: It is exciting. You know, it kind of goes; I live in analogies, Dave, so bear with me. My brain is just a giant children’s storybook {laughs} essentially.
Dave Hunt: {laughing}
Cassy Joy: But you know, it’s kind of the analogy of sometimes you’re so far into the trees you can’t see the forest for what it is. And that’s kind of what it means to maybe not necessarily know exactly what you’re good at. To the mentorship note, as well; if you ask a mentor or a trusted friend, or if you just get out there and you ask the audience; what do you guys see as unique and good about what I’m up to, what drew you to me and what made you want to stick around. And they can tell you.
Dave Hunt: Absolutely.
Cassy Joy: And they can tell you what the forest looks like, and kind of the landscape.
Dave Hunt: Yep.
Cassy Joy: So you can better navigate, and make it even better. So, awesome. Man, we just put our heads together and came up with something great!
Dave Hunt: {laughs}
Cassy Joy: {laughs} Ok.
Dave Hunt: Killing it! We’re killing it!
Cassy Joy: Yeah, we’re killing it. This is great. Ok, awesome. You are offering up something very special and generous to the Fed and Fit listeners; a free jump rope guide. Can you tell me what’s included in this guide? And just so you guys know, I’m going to link to this in the show notes on https://fedandfit.com.
Dave Hunt: Yeah, sure, absolutely. The thing with jump rope, actually, a lot of people have fond memories of doing it when they were younger, but there’s actually not a lot of the general population that jump ropes. And sort of my mission, and Crossrope’s mission, beyond just kind of giving people good content and good products, is to get more people jumping. We feel that it’s an underutilized exercise, and the biggest sort of friction point and why people don’t jump, as I’ve found out in the past couple of years, they just don’t think they can do it. It’s a self limiting mentality. They’re afraid of looking bad in front of other people, or they don’t think they’re coordinated enough.
So we structure things like this free jump rope guide for your listeners to be just a quick and simple crash course that gives some inputs about proper upper body technique, proper lower body technique, and to explain a little bit of how they can kind of coach and improve themselves and what to look for if they’re having; if they’re struggling in certain areas. And that includes some of what I was telling you about kind of some advice and tips around the idea that a heavier rope might be easier for them if they’re having a hard time getting the coordination down. Even just simple things like jumping in front of a mirror, or recording yourself when you jump, or getting a coach or a friend to take a look when you’re jumping, just so you can really kind of build some confidence, and add this powerful exercise to your fitness arsenal.
So those are the kind of things that we hit on on the guide. I definitely encourage everyone to download it. It doesn’t take too long to go through, and I think it will inspire you to give jumping another shot if you haven’t done it in a while. And if you do jump; great. It will be a couple of extra tips to help you take it to the next level.
Cassy Joy: Awesome. I can’t wait to dig into it! Man, Dave, this has been awesome. Thank you so much for all of your wealth of knowledge and willingness to share all these great pieces with listeners here.
Dave Hunt: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks so much for having me on, I appreciate it.
Cassy Joy: Of course. Now remind me really quickly, and listeners, where else we can find you on the web. If someone wanted to order a Crossrope, where should they go?
Dave Hunt: Well they can go to crossrope.com; like you mentioned, that guide, I think you’re going to link to it, but it’s www.crossrope.com/fedandfit, so it should be easy to remember. And you know, we’re all over the place. We’ve got a bunch of good YouTube videos; we’re on Instagram, Facebook. So basically wherever people are we’re happy to connect with them. I love to personally interact and engage, so if anybody wants to send me an email, it’s Dave@Crossrope.com. I’m happy to help how I can. I think I can tell that you love to connect with your customers and your audience; I’m the exact same way. That’s what it’s all about.
Cassy Joy: It is. That’s what keeps me going. {laughs}
Dave Hunt: Yep. {laughs}
Cassy Joy: Awesome. Man that is so wonderful. Thank you so much for your generosity. I really appreciate it. I will link up to everything. If you’re driving and you didn’t have a pen, don’t worry. Just go to https://fedandfit.com and the show notes will be there with a full transcription of today’s episode, if you missed something and you just want to read on what that was and I’ll provide links to crossrope.com and where you can get that free download. So thanks again Dave, this has been a real pleasure!
Dave Hunt: It was a lot of fun, thanks so much!
Cassy Joy: Of course. Have a great one!
Dave Hunt: Alright, you too.
