Ep. 117: Ready or Not with Nom Nom Paleo!

Fed & Fit
Fed & Fit

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    On today's episode, I'm talking with Michelle Tam of Nom Nom Paleo about her new book, Ready or Not!

    Fed and Fit podcast graphic, episode 117 ready or not with Nom Nom Paleo with Cassy Joy

    We're back with our 117th episode of the Fed+Fit Podcast! Remember to check back every Monday for a new episode and be sure to subscribe on iTunes!

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    Episode 117 Sponsors

    • Aaptiv – be sure to enter the promo code “FEDANDFIT” (one word, all caps) at checkout, and your first 30 days are on the house!

    Episode 117 Links

    • Order the Ready or Not book HERE!
    • Order the Ready or Not Wall Calendar HERE!
    • Find Michelle's blog, Nom Nom Paleo, HERE!

    Episode 117 Transcription

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    Cassy Joy: Welcome back to another episode of the Fed and Fit podcast. Today is a very exciting episode, because I’m joined by the amazing and fabulous and wonderful Michelle Tam of Nom Nom Paleo. She’s coming on the show today not only to introduce us to the brand new book that she and Henry are just releasing; it came out 6 days ago as this episode airs on August 1st. I wanted to go through all the A months; and there’s only one other A month. But I was going to say April! {laughs} It came out on August 1st, 2017. You guys, I have my hands on a copy, it’s absolutely wonderful. Michelle, thank you so much for coming on the show. And welcome to the Fed and Fit listeners!

    Michelle Tam: Oh, thank you! It’s my pleasure to be here. I’m so excited.

    Cassy Joy: Oh, me too! This is going to be fun. You can do a better job than anybody explaining the book. Could you please tell us a little bit about Ready or Not cookbook? What went into this idea. This is, I believe, book number two. The first one, Nom Nom Paleo, is a must have if you listeners don’t already have a copy of it. And after having flipped through Ready or Not, so much love and energy and attention and thought went into every single one of those pages. So it’s sure to be another great addition to your collection.

    Michelle, I’d love it if you could tell us a little bit in your own words about Ready or Not cookbook?

    Michelle Tam: So, Ready or Not cookbook is definitely a family affair. So, Henry, my husband, and I have been working on this I think 3 years. And if you see the book, it totally is 100%. So, Henry does all of the design, all the photos, all the cartoons, all the layout. And I do all the recipes and the snark. So the voice is me. And you see our kids kind of sprinkled throughout the book.

    But how this cookbook is different from our last cookbook, and I think from a lot of traditional cookbooks. We’ve broken up this cookbook into your state of readiness. So this cookbook has more than 150 make ahead, makeover, and make now recipes. Because I think most people; I kind of waver between where I am in my state of readiness depending on the day of the week. And some days I’m super ready to cook, and so I want to make a bunch of things that take a little bit longer, things I can reheat later in the week. Or some sort of mother sauce or dressing that can be reused later in the week. And other times, I have no time at all. And I open my fridge, and I’m like; I have no idea what to make.

    So our book has recipes that are to get you set. So they’re the sauces, dressings, and emergency proteins you can have. The ready section is for days you have a little bit longer to cook. And then the kind of ready section, which utilizes the first two sections, so you have a bunch of quick week night meals, or leftover makeovers. And then the not ready section, where you don’t need anything premade, but you can get something on the table in 45 minutes or less. And some of them only take like 15 minutes.

    And every single recipe is pretty similar, I think, to our blog. Has a picture for every single step. So even if you're not super familiar with cooking, it’s like we’re holding your hand while you're in the kitchen. So you know; I just did this, this is what it’s supposed to look like. So it should help everybody get food on the table. Because ultimately, it’s not a matter of being perfectly paleo. It’s just cooking meals for yourself and your family.

    Cassy Joy: I love that. I really do. And it comes; it’s a hardback book. Are they all going to be hardback?

    Michelle Tam: Yes.

    Cassy Joy: I love that so much. Because it really does feel like a great reference book. I will just cook and throw stuff together. But it feels like one of those books that I want to keep right next to my coffee maker in my kitchen so I can just flip it open and just mindlessly say, “Michelle says this, this, and this. I’m going to follow these steps.”

    Michelle Tam: {laughs}

    Cassy Joy: “And we’re going to have dinner in 15 minutes.” {laughs} I think that’s great.

    Michelle Tam: What we tried to do; it’s like a bright yellow book. Our first book was a bright red book. But this one is a bright yellow book, with lots of cartoons. And so we actually secretly design it this way so it will appeal to hopefully everybody, but especially, I think if you have kind of some resistant or reluctant kids or picky people in your family. If you just leave it on the table, they might be like, “Huh, what’s this?” And then flip through it. And then hopefully kind of get sucked in by pictures, or just the fact that it’s very easy going and encouraging. {laughs}

    Cassy Joy: Mm-hmm.

    Michelle Tam: So it gets kind of buy-in secretly. So we hope that it will get people excited to cook.

    Cassy Joy: That’s so clever. It makes me think of; we’re a few months away from the holidays. But it would be a great one to bring to some family get togethers if you just wanted to very politely inspire fellow family members to get cooking, or maybe even start experimenting with healthier foods. Leave it on the coffee table!

    Michelle Tam: I think, just like you. Anybody, when they first go paleo, you become like a crazy evangelist.

    Cassy Joy: Yes.

    Michelle Tam: And you are just telling everyone; “You need to do this! You know, it would make you healthier. It will make you feel better.” Because you're so excited to share what you’ve learned. But I think after you’ve been doing it for a while; like the two of us, you know that that just doesn’t work. And it’s very polarizing. And you get invites to people’s homes anymore.

    Cassy Joy: {laughs}

    Michelle Tam: So this is our way of doing it. If you want to know stuff, you can pick up this book. Or you can just go to my website and look at stuff for free. Nobody is trying to do a hard sell. But if you're interested, it’s here.

    Cassy Joy: I love that. I really do. And Michelle, this reminds me of something. And I don’t know if you remember this at all. I met you for the very first time maybe 5 or so years ago at PaleoFx in Austin, Texas. And it was a good moment for me. I was definitely in that evangelistic stage of paleo. And I remember I bounced over to you. And I was like, “Hi Michelle! My name’s Cassy! I just started a blog, it’s called Fed and Fit.” I said, “But I make things like truffles on occasion, and I guess you could call that faileo.” {laughs} And I used the word “faileo”. And you looked at me square in the eyes, and you said, “There’s no such thing as faileo.” {laughing}

    Michelle Tam: {laughs} I hope I was nice about.

    Cassy Joy: You were super nice.

    Michelle Tam: I do remember meeting you, but I also know before I quit. Because I used to work night shifts, up until, I think, 2.5 years ago. So when I would go to these conferences, it would be during my off week. But I know now, looking back. My memory is terrible. {laughs} I used to work nights, and I used to be like, I kind of remember. Even Henry now; I can remember stuff really well from before I worked night shift. But my memory is really nebulous in terms of what happened when I was working night shift. And I really think it’s because my sleep was so messed up. And I don’t have really great memories from there.

    Cassy Joy: That’s fascinating. Maybe that’s a good thing to take into account if there are any college students listening, to make sure you prioritize sleep, as far as doing well in school. But that’s so funny, because I didn’t expect you to remember it. But it was pivotal in that sense, because I thought; “Gosh. You know what? She’s right. There is no such thing!” You were super; for the record, you were very, very sweet about it.

    Michelle Tam: And look at you now! I see what you're doing, I’m like, “Wow. She does so many things. And she’s so positive.” I just think you're a great person in the field of paleo.

    Cassy Joy: Oh, that’s really kind. Thank you. Likewise. Hi-fives! {laughs}

    Michelle Tam: {laughs}

    Cassy Joy: You're on the pacific coast right now, right?

    Michelle Tam: I am. We’re currently in Portland, where it’s really, really hot. Which is unusual!

    Cassy Joy: That is. I think of Portland as just forever 75 degrees.

    Michelle Tam: Yeah, this year has been a weird year for Portland. People are like; what are you doing in Portland? We split our time between the Bay area and Portland. But I love Portland, so we’re here whenever we can. But Portland this year, there’s been snow. And then there’s been a record heat wave. So it’s been crazy. {laughs}

    Cassy Joy: It’s a real deal summer up there.

    Michelle Tam: It is.

    Cassy Joy: We escape San Antonio, Texas, where I live. The day we left, I had 108 degree temperature reading on my car.

    Michelle Tam: Wow.

    Cassy Joy: And we were ready to get the heck out of dodge. Now we’re up here in Ashville, North Carolina, and it’s a much more tolerable 80 degrees. I have to tell you; I’m getting so off track. I pulled into the driveway of this HomeAway we’re staying at. And I thought they were fake. There was a mama black bear and two baby black bears in the front yard.

    Michelle Tam: Whoa. I mean, that’s amazing. But I would be scared, too. {laughs}

    Cassy Joy: I had a moment. I pulled up, and I wanted to take a picture for my nieces. And I thought about rolling down the window, and then I had this image of this mama bear coming at me. {laughing} So windows up. It’s a blurry picture through the window. Anyway, sorry. Getting distracted.

    That’s a really great introduction. And people can find your book everywhere books are found, right? I know they can go on Amazon. They can go on Barnes and Noble, Indigo; all those options.

    Michelle Tam: Costco. Yes. It should be; I mean, yes. Yes. It should be everywhere. {laughs}

    Cassy Joy: Ok, perfect. And as always, you can go to www.nomnompaleo.com just to make sure, if you want direct links to those outlets. But that’s wonderful. And I actually have a couple of questions for you while I’ve still got you, and then I know we have some readers’ questions that we can get to also. But I would love to know, Michelle. This is my first question. And it’s something; it’s one of those things I think I’ve talked about behind your back, in a good way {laughs}, to several friends of mine. But I admire from afar; knowing very little about it. But I admire your recipe development process. Because it seems like you put more energy and care and attention into developing a recipe. And it truly inspires me to do better! {laughing}

    Michelle Tam: Well, this is a work in progress. Because when I first started blogging, there was not that much care put into it. Because when I first started blogging, it was more kind of a journal for myself as to what I was making that night. So it literally would be whatever I’m throwing together. And then I’d quickly put up a recipe. But then I think now, because I don’t work nights anymore, this is my livelihood. And I am so picky. That is the one thing that I care about, is that the recipes really work. Because as soon as they’re up; you know this too. As soon as they’re up, someone will make it, and if it doesn’t work, you will find out about it right away. {laughing}

    Cassy Joy: Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

    Michelle Tam: And so that’s why I test things as rigorously as I do, because I want them to work as soon as they’re up. And what’s good is I think Henry and I concentrate on different things that we’re kind of really nit-picky and perfectionist about. So he is very nit-picky about the image being right, and the design, and the cartoons, and all that stuff. But he could care less if it tastes ok. Whereas, I really, really care about how the recipe tastes. And it’s funny, because we’ll be shooting stuff. And we always just shoot it in our kitchen. And he’ll be like, oh I got a great picture for that. I’m like, I don’t care. It is not ready to go.

    Cassy Joy: {laughing}

    Michelle Tam: We have to take these pictures again because it’s missing these ingredients, or whatever. So I think it’s a good synergy for the two of us. But it definitely took some time to get to where we are now. And I think, I didn’t even really start doing this probably until 2012. So the earlier recipes; I used to write them the wrong way. I wouldn’t list things in the proper order in terms of the ingredients. So now I think after doing it for a while, I know exactly how I’m supposed to do it. We have kind of a way that I go about recipe development and testing. So it’s more streamline now. {laughs} So yeah. But that is the one thing I care about.

    Cassy Joy: I love it. Well, it shows. It definitely shows. And that’s a reputation that you have in such a good way. I’m sure you know this, but again, more nice things that are said behind your back. But I feel like Nom Nom Paleo is synonymous with, if you make this it will work.

    Michelle Tam: We hope so! And obviously, you have all these people, “I tried it, and did it to the T and it didn’t work! You’re the worst!” And I’m like, ok sorry. {laughing}

    Cassy Joy: {laughs} I’ve had those.

    Michelle Tam: But yeah, there’s always someone. And there’s only so much; we can… I think that’s also why we try to have a picture for every step just so they can kind of see. But everybody’s kitchen is different. We’re at all different altitudes. Our ovens are different. So there’s only so much you can replicate or do if I’m not in the kitchen watching you do something.

    Cassy Joy: Absolutely. That was a good one. That was another one. I think it was this same exact PaleoFx, it might have even been the same day. It was a big day for me and learning lessons. {laughs} But Melissa Joulwan. I remember chatting with her. And I had just started getting comments on my blog to the point where 1 in 10 weren’t glowing. {laughs}

    Michelle Tam: Yeah.

    Cassy Joy: And I remember chatting with her in how to respond. And I felt very obligated to respond to everybody. And she gave me a great pocket response. And it was just, because I can’t be in the kitchen with you, it’s difficult for me to know where things went wrong.

    Michelle Tam: Yeah.

    Cassy Joy: But it’s just so common. This morning I made breakfast for our entire extended family. And gosh darn it, I burnt the bacon. {laughs} Like, you know?

    Michelle Tam: That happens to the best of us. That happens to me all the time. Especially if it’s in a pan.

    Cassy Joy: Yes.

    Michelle Tam: That’s why I like to bake it. Because then I don’t have to watch it.

    Cassy Joy: Yes. Absolutely, but it does happen. Well that’s wonderful. Your attention to detail in the recipes; and Henry’s attention to detail in the images and everything, it just all works. Dream team; I love it. It’s such a treat going through your work.

    Michelle Tam: Well thank you.

    Cassy Joy: Yes. So thank you for doing that, as a consumer. And then also, you just really do inspire a lot of what I do. Another question I have for you. We have actually a good amount; we. Me, myself and I, have a good amount of bloggers that listen to this show. Whether they’re just getting started or they want to start a blog, or maybe they’re a few years in and they’re really looking now to figure out a way if this is something they want to turn into a business and have it grow outside that perspective.

    And I would love if you have any ideas, or pieces of advice, for either start up bloggers or folks who are looking to turn a blog into a business. You’ve just been tremendously successful, not only with running a beautiful blog, but I admire you as a business woman, as well. So if you have any tips of advice for folks.

    Michelle Tam: It’s always really hard. It’s hard, I think, to tell you exactly. Because what we did is, I think, unscripted. But at the same time, so many things came together. So that a lot of it is luck and chance, and us being ready to take that opportunity. And I know this is so cliché when people are like, “You just have to put out great content.” {laughs} But you do. You do have to put out good, consistent content. But it also has to be a way that is really authentic to you.

    I think for us, the recipes that I make, in terms of the types of foods that I make. They really are foods that I really, really love. And I’m not trying to make things that I think will get a lot of hits necessarily. Obviously, there are things where I’m like, I think this would be better than me doing menudo or something. {laughs}

    But I think you just have to put your nose down the grind. You just have to work really, really hard. And hustle. And try to do the best that you can, and not try to do shortcuts. And things will come. I know it’s hard to believe that when you're working on it for months or even a couple of years. We were working on it for at least four or five years before I said, ok I think I’m going to quit my job. And this was after our first book came out, our app came out. We had gotten, I think, kind of substantial income to let us do it. But it really took me a long time to finally say; ok, I’m going to stop dealing drugs. Because I was a pharmacist. {laughs} And say ok, I’m all into this.

    And it might not happen right away. Or it might not happen at all. It might be your side hustle that generates a lot of joy and some money. But I think you’ve got to just go into it, because you love it. And you really want to create something useful or delightful for people. Does that make sense?

    Cassy Joy: I love that. It makes perfect sense. Absolutely.

    Michelle Tam: I also come from a very; obviously, I come from a very privileged position where I had a great job, and Henry had a good job. So it wasn’t like I was dependent on taking every opportunity that came my way. I was able to be picky, because I had safety nets. Does that make sense?

    Cassy Joy: That makes perfect sense. It reminds me of something that Diane Sanfilippo; I don’t remember, it’s fuzzy if she told me directly or if I just heard it in a larger context to a group. But she was recommending to people to keep their day job as long as humanly possible.

    Michelle Tam: Yeah.

    Cassy Joy: For that very reason. And I too, did that. I worked part time; well full time on the side. I mean, I had the luxury, at the time, because I didn’t have anything else going on. But I essentially ran the blog about 75% of full time, and then I had a job on the side. And it was overwhelming at a certain point. But because I had that income, there was no pressure on the business to make some of those rush decisions. So you're so, so right about that.

    Michelle Tam: Yeah. I think Diane is a great resource for business, and how she’s run her brand. She’s always just putting out really great authentic content. So I think she’s a great resource.

    Cassy Joy: Awesome. {laughs} That sounds good. If y’all aren’t familiar, look up Diane Sanfilippo. She’s over at www.BalancedBites.com. And we’ll link to all of this good stuff in the show notes. So I have another question for you. Ready or Not; I feel like it’s such a good real-life glimpse into what it is to actually cook for your family. In a very realistic sense.

    Michelle Tam: Yeah, I have bed-head in some of these pictures. {laughing} I’m waking up in the morning like; ok, we have to work on this recipe. So my hair is crazy. My crazy glasses. It is like us in the kitchen. I think I showed one of the early copies to another cookbook author. And she’s like; oh, I like how this looks so real. And I’m like, hmm. {laughing} What do you mean by that?

    Cassy Joy: {laughs} I love it. It goes along with very authentic, and very you. But it is just so, so relatable. And I think that is, to your point, something that’s not necessarily out there in the cookbook world. How to really make this happen on a day to day basis. So that leads into my next question. When it comes to the meals that you're putting on the table for your family. Obviously when you're writing a cookbook, life is a little bit different and you're eating a lot from what you're putting into the book. But what makes up the majority of the meals that you guys all enjoy together? Do you turn to established recipes on your blog, or in your previous book? Or are you constantly enjoying recipes that are under development? Or just something that you just throw together randomly?

    Michelle Tam: It’s definitely a mix. I am not a make-ahead meal planner. I know a lot of people are. But I think just because I’m always creating stuff for the blog or whatever it is. There’s always something in the state of development that I’m working on. But of course, the kids start complaining when they eat something {laughs} 4 times in a row. Otherwise, it is me just kind of throwing stuff together, cleaning out the fridge. So that is a lot of stir fry. So what I show on my Instagram stories, and on my Instagram, is really what we’re having every night. So I try to show that just to show people it doesn’t have to be something fancy every night. We’re just getting something on the table. And I just make sure there is vegetable, healthy protein, and healthy fat in some sort of combination. And that’s why I love the Instant Pot. Because you can throw a bunch of stuff in there; and poof! You have something you can serve your family.

    Cassy Joy: {laughs} I love it.

    Michelle Tam: I used to serve something different for the kids. I think when I first started going paleo, at the beginning, it was just Henry and I. And so I would make something different for the kids. And then finally one day, I was like; this is crazy. I don’t have time to make them something different. And why do I think it’s ok that Henry and I are eating something healthier, and I’m not serving that to my kids? I think that was kind of like a total honest; I really had to be honest with myself and say, it’s ok what I’m doing. Because it really isn’t. So then I was like; ok, we’re all going to be on board and have one meal. And those are the things that are in our cookbooks and on the blog.

    So instead of being kind of crazy stuff. Things aren’t super spicy. Or there’s not any kind of weird; like a bunch of offal. I know that’s really healthy. But I know realistically; my kids will happily eat like Ollie’s crackling chicken and roasted asparagus or broccoli, and that’s what we serve them.

    Cassy Joy: I love that. I think that’s great. That actually leads into one of the readers’ questions to this point. She does mostly paleo, and a cleaner diet, she says. But she wants to know had your kids and husband always eaten this way, and if not, what was the adjustment like getting them on board. And I assume, to what you just said, you cook them the things that they would eat that were considered healthy.

    Michelle Tam: Right. And so we didn’t go; my two sons, who are now 9 and 12. But I think when we started trying to get everybody on board they were 3 and 6. And our older son was a total first child, people pleaser. He’s like, ok I’ll eat whatever you want mom. {laughs} And then the second kid is way more stubborn. So he was really resistant to {laughs} going paleo. So we didn’t go cold-turkey with him. We just found things that he liked that we were ok with. So he’s a big fan of scrambled eggs. And he’ll also eat roasted broccoli. So we’re not going to make anything fancy that’s different for you, but we will make you scrambled eggs and broccoli. And eventually he got tired of it.

    Just like there’s this children’s book that you actually should get, when you have your little one. Called Bread and Jam for Francis, which is a really old school but really wonderful book about this hedgehog named Francis. And she’s super picky. And all she likes is bread and jam, which is not paleo. So her mom only packs her bread and jam for every meal and every snack. And then she serves really wonderful foods for everybody else. Until finally she’s like; “I want to try what you guys are having.” And then it happens! And she was on board.

    So that’s what we did with Ollie with the whole eggs and broccoli. Until finally he was like; “I want to try that too.” So now he eats what we eat, but to assert himself, he just eats super-duper slow. {laughs}

    Cassy Joy: {laughing}

    Michelle Tam: But he eats what we eat. And it’s not easy. And the kids are not perfectly paleo when we’re outside of the house. But I know that I control what they eat, say 80% of the time. Because I make their breakfast, I pack their lunch. And if we’re having dinner together. But if we’re going to a party, and we’re going out to eat, they know what their; Ollie and I are really sensitive to gluten, so he knows he can’t have gluten. But you know, he’s totally not perfect. And we’ll get him gluten free treats. And then Owen, actually can tolerate gluten. So when he’s out of the house, he does order stuff that are off menu here at home. But when he’s at home, he eats what I cook. And I think because I know I’m actually cooking most of their meals, I’m ok with it. But if I wasn’t, and they were doing this. I mean, that’s also a time when you're supposed to evaluate; am I really doing the best that I can? {laughs} You know what I mean?

    Cassy Joy: Mm-hmm.

    Michelle Tam: And kind of figuring out what works. But it has to be sustainable. And you have to have family harmony. So it’s whatever works for your family.

    Cassy Joy: The path of least resistance. {laughs}

    Michelle Tam: Yeah. But sometimes there might be a little resistance. But you know that ultimately you are doing the best by yourself and your kids.

    Cassy Joy: I love that. That’s wonderful advice. On the semi-same topic, Emily would like to know what are some of your favorite meals to send in the kid’s lunch boxes?

    Michelle Tam: So again, {laughs} it doesn’t necessarily have to be perfectly paleo as long as your breakfast and dinners are perfectly paleo. But if you want really perfectly paleo ideas, I think have years and years of paleo packed lunch ideas on my blog.

    Cassy Joy: Yes.

    Michelle Tam: Because every year, I think in August, I would partner with my friend who creates these really cool lunch boxes and we’d come up with these really beautiful paleo lunches. But in reality, our kids; I’m not packing that every morning.

    Cassy Joy: {laughs}

    Michelle Tam: Like, I’m going to do some healthy protein, veggies or fruit, and some healthy fat in there I’m happy. Because I think initially I would pack these really awesome lunches for them, and they’d come back uneaten. Or they’d dump it, and they wouldn’t tell me. Because they knew that I’d spent all this time, and they didn’t want to upset me. So finally I was like; you know, we’ve got to figure out what works for everybody. So it’s not perfectly paleo. But they’re mostly gluten free. But there is always healthy protein, veggies and fruit, and healthy fat in there. But you’ve got to get buy-in from them so they’ll actually eat it. But that’s kind of the happy medium for us. {laughs}

    Cassy Joy: I love that. I mean, I remember that as a kid going to school. My sweet mom would make us…

    Michelle Tam: You’d trade stuff? Yeah.

    Cassy Joy: Yeah, we’d trade stuff! I will give you this, gosh, what was it. A Newman’s O for your Gushers. {laughs}

    Michelle Tam: Yeah, exactly.

    Cassy Joy: Or, I’ll just take the $5 I had stashed in my piggy bank, because it’s enchilada day in the cafeteria! {laughs}

    Michelle Tam: Exactly. So I totally know what happens outside of the house happens, but when they’re in the house, this is what we’re having. And I’m totally cool with that.

    Cassy Joy: I love that. That’s wonderful. Maria wants you to know; it’s not a question. But she wants you to know that your mushroom powder is actually magical.

    Michelle Tam: Oh, well thank you. {laughs}

    Cassy Joy: So if you guys aren’t familiar with that, you should absolutely Google magic mushroom powder Nom Nom Paleo, it will come up. It’s a great one.

    Michelle Tam: It’s a seasoning salt. People think of it as a dry rub; I'm like, no. You use it the same way you would use salt. Don’t just pack it on your meat, because it will be salty. {laughs} It’s a seasoning salt.

    Cassy Joy: {laughing} Oh my gosh, I have an image in my mind. I’m glad you clarified. Ok, and then this is a pretty good question to end with. They’ve all been great questions. But Chirpy Bird wants to know, “What lessons did you learn about yourself through the writing, publishing, and public speaking process? What strengths did you develop through the process, and any tips for others?”

    Michelle Tam: Wow, that’s a good question. So I have to say, I am someone; just like, I think most people who have a self-doubt about my public speaking, and my writing. I’m probably; what is that word where you’re like; I have imposter syndrome like nobody’s business. {laughs} Which I think a lot of people, especially women, have. But I think after doing this for a while. And doing things that scare me, I have gained, I think, more self-confidence. And even if I’m not confident about something, what is the worst that can happen? Nothing. Nothing is really that terrible that can happen.

    So if anything, I’ve learned to just really; if an opportunity presents itself that I think is a heck yeah, I really want to do that. Even if it scares me. I will grab those chances and opportunities. Because you never know what will happen. And I try not to let fear keep me from doing things. Which is a big thing. Because I used to be super safe. My whole career was safe. My whole life path, I think until I started doing Nom Nom Paleo was a very safe path. And I think since doing all this, and taking the opportunities that have presented themselves to me, I’m like, no this is cool. And I’ve been able to do so many really great things. You should just grab those opportunities.

    Cassy Joy: I love it. That’s so wonderful. It makes me want to go out and do something new! {laughs}

    Michelle Tam: Yeah. And I see you do so many things. And every time I feel down in the dumps, and I watch your IG stories, I’m like, “That Cassy Joy is positive.” Like, your car got towed, and your glasses broke, and you were still so happy. I’m like, “You know what? I’ve got to be more like that.” I need to be a better example for my kids! {laughing}

    Cassy Joy: Oh gosh, that’s so sweet. Yeah, there is something funny. Like this podcast, to that point. When somebody brought up the idea of a podcast, I had severe imposter syndrome. Because I listened to podcasts, and I remember thinking; no way. Those things; that’s a podcast. You could show up in an app. {laughs} There’s an audio recording. And I jumped in. And it’s probably been the thing I have enjoyed the most of a lot of my outlets. So I think that’s such wonderful advice. If you're out there, just go for it. I think it’s one of those things. The path before you kind of unveils itself the more you walk down it, so just start walking.

    Michelle Tam: Exactly. And it won’t always be perfect. But you’ll also see the outcome is never as terrible as you imagine it to be.

    Cassy Joy: That’s so true. That’s so true. Everyone is rooting for you. {laughs}

    Michelle Tam: Yeah.

    Cassy Joy: I like to think they are, at least. {laughing}

    Michelle Tam: {laughing}

    Cassy Joy: Oh Michelle, thank you so much for coming on today’s show. And just to recap, you can find Ready or Not cookbook, the brand new edition. You can order it on Amazon; go pick up a copy at Barnes and Noble. I think you mentioned it will be in Costco. So everywhere books are sold. You can also head over to www.nomnompaleo.com to learn more about Michelle, and see all of her wonderful, wonderful recipes that are there.

    Thank you so much for coming on today!

    Michelle Tam: It was my pleasure. Thank you.

    Cassy Joy: Absolutely. Y’all have a great day. We’ll be back again next week.


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